Lazyboy added the following as a comment yesterday to 247 and so I felt it deserved a front page spot. Always good to see all sides to a discussion.
Methinks you doth protest too much, Shaun. No less than five articles in the space of one week in which you harangue the iPhone for it’s “poor PIM”? And now you take it one step further with this comment: “Phone: dreadful, pitiful, awful. I could go on, but doing anything calendar or task related is akin to an elephant trying to open a bag of crisps. 2/10″Well, I’m crying foul on this comparison, and here’s why:
The BlackBerry’s PIM apps SUCK in many respects – I’ll take the iPhone any day.
You’ve rightly crticized the iPhone for the number of taps it takes to enter an appointment on the iPhone and some of its other shortcomings, but the notes and tasks apps on the BlackBerry are just as maddening to me.
But let’s start with the calendar, which, on the iPhone, is nowhere near as bad as you’re making out – in fact, it’s pretty smart.
CALENDAR:
ow, the BlackBerry calendar isn’t bad – you can set it up for quick entry, but it’s impossible to get a clear overview of your time, or of the conflicts between appointments. Used intelligently, the iPhone is far superior in this regard. Here are a couple of examples: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86244036@N00/3861172227/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/86244036@N00/3861977828/ I also like the way the iPhone automatically looks for the next available open time slot when creating new entries.
Navigating between different views and days on the BlackBerry is a royal pain in the you know what, particularly irritating is the lag while the BlackBerry informs you that it is “organizing calendar” as you switch between day, week and month views. On the iPhone it is instantaneous.
The week view on the BlackBerry is useless – there’s a good reason they didn’t include one on the iPhone. (Having said that, a week view on the iPhone in landscape would probably work very well, as it does in the Daylite Touch app, and I wish that Apple would add one.)
Month view on the BlackBerry – Meh. It’s reasonabily handy for navigating, (once you get there), but God help you if the date you’re looking for is at the end of next month or, even worse, a couple of months ahead. Get ready for plenty of scrolling and/or typing in the “go to” search dialog. On the iPhone it’s a couple of quick taps and you’re done.
NOTES:
hen I’m talking on the phone and someone dictates a phone number and and address, it’s a snap to switch to the notes app on the iPhone and jot these down, but a ghastly, cumbersome process on the BlackBerry – even if you set up some kind of shortcut to get you there quicker. On the Blackberry notes are are slow to enter because, unlike on the iPhone, there is no quick add button and you have to enter a separate title for the note before typing the body text. If you then want to switch quickly to another app, you can’t, because notes don’t autosave. You have to bring up a save dialog box and tap save, this then bounces you back to the main memo list, and then – and only then – can you switch to a new app. Tiresome.
You can’t email BlackBerry memos. The only data detectors on the BB are for phone numbers and email addresses – and you first have to scroll to the specific text to enable any of these smart features, then pull up a menu to do what you want. On the iPhone I can just tap a phone number, email address, or URL to initiate an action. The iPhone even parses street addresses to launch Google maps.
Finally, the quicksearch on the BB only searches note titles, not the body copy; and you can’t move to the next/previous note without backing out of the note you’re editing/reading first – again, neither of these shortcomings is present on the iPhone.
TASKS:
he tasks app on the BlackBerry is plagued by many of the same downsides as the BlackBerry memo app. It is quite limited, with inflexible sorting options and much else besides. Now, tasks aren’t included out of the box on the iPhone, but there’s no shortage of choice in the app store, with apps like Appigo Todo, Omnifocus and others handily eclipsing what’s available for the BlackBerry and, indeed, any other platform. There are quite a few apps that sync with Outlook, Google tasks and others, too.
Bottom line: I do more on my iPhone than I ever could with a Blackberry, and my workflow is far faster and more fluid. It may not be the perfect, but it’s a pleasure to use while the BB (aside from the ability to quick enter an appointment) is a chore.
Needless to say, I disagree with your views on the Blackberry/iPhone keyboard and battery comparisons, as well;)
LMAO.. OS and Religion, dangerous and entertaining ground..
My brother can’t stand MS because he finds them controlling and so he uses Apple, as a developer I find MS libererating in comparison to Apple.. horses for courses…
(Though I work as a .net software developer for a large retail chain that deals with both companies, and so have a different exposure to the companies in question to the average consumer I guess..)
BB entering calendar is super quick if the date is today or close to today and you can just scroll quickly. If it is further away and you need to go into the menu then things get messy, trying to pick the date with that stupid “roller” menu style thing is a pain.
iPhone needs to allow tapping on a time in a day view to allow direct entry as you can do with BB.
“LMAO.. OS and Religion, dangerous and entertaining ground..”
It’s got nothing to do with OS and religion, Joel. I used a BlackBerry for two years before I switched to the iPhone; I found it so useless for jotting down quick notes and tasks that I took to carrying a Palm T/E or small notebook with me wherever I went. Now, I’m watching my wife struggle with the same issues on her work-supplied BlackBerry Curve.
I find the iPhone, and the 3GS in particular, super fast for switching between tasks and entering data – apart from in the calendar app, where a few too many taps are needed. But, in other respects, it’s quicker to use than the BlackBerry’s calendar and does a better job at presenting an overview of the day’s events – at least it does for me.
I don’t see what any of that has to do with religion.
I didn’t mean it was literally like religion, just that discussing ones OS choice seems to often turn out like discussing religion…
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/my-operating-system-is-my-religion-12951
I knew what you meant, Joel. I just didn’t think my response was blind and fanatical, as you seemed to be implying.
The only OS that matters is the one in my hand!
Work is a BB, Pleasure is Android and Apple.
“The only OS that matters is the one in my hand!
Work is a BB, Pleasure is Android and Apple.”
Just the one device for me, Gavin. 3 devices.. now that’s madness.
Seems to me that some of Lazyboy’s info is dated. I am using a Curve 8900 and find that it is easy to start a new memo. There is an “Add Memo” line now at the top of the screen.
Because BB is multi-tasking, it is easy to leave a memo and do something else and then return to the memo where you left off.
Saving it is as easy as hitting the end button.
What aggravates me most about Apple notes: NO CATEGORIES! I have over 1500 memos for reference and fun, and try and wade through those if you want to find one specific memo. (OK – I know both have a search function. BTW – my BB searches the full body of the memo).
I admit that I don’t use the Calendar as much, but have no problems with changing views. I find the week view helpful, if only to determine blocked out times. Navigation is an issue, but manageable.
As for emailing notes, I’ll give that the iPhone is easier, but BB had cut and paste long before iPhone users were screaming for it.
And for Tasks, having to resort to third party software only speaks to the short sightedness of Apple in not anticipating the needs of their users.
Many of the shortcomings of the BB can also be addressed by 3rd party apps, so that argument is weak.
As far as setting up new memos, appointments and tasks, to turn a phrase “There’s an app for that.” Quicklaunch offers one click menu items for each. Neat and quick.
And my contacts allows me to see the contacts address in Maps.
In the end, all the “discussion” seems to support the argument postulated, that “my OS is my religion”. Sometimes an OS is defended more out of faith and devotion rather than merit.
In the end, your mileage may vary, so stick to what works for you.
“Many of the shortcomings of the BB can also be addressed by 3rd party apps, so that argument is weak.”
To be fair some of the shortcomings on the iPhone can be addressed by 3rd party apps as well, but crucuially for me not the calendar. This is the big problem of the moment and (I keep saying it) Apple needs to open up more. It won’t though because it always thinks it knows best.
“Seems to me that some of Lazyboy’s info is dated. I am using a Curve 8900 and find that it is easy to start a new memo. There is an “Add Memo” line now at the top of the screen.”
Well, that’s welcome news. It’s not there on my wife’s recently-issued Curve, and it doesn’t get past the issue of having to type a note title before entering the body copy, though.
“Because BB is multi-tasking, it is easy to leave a memo and do something else and then return to the memo where you left off. Saving it is as easy as hitting the end button.”
Multi-tasking is irrelevant, here, because, on the Blackberry, there’s no way to switch to another app without saving the memo first, is there? Perhaps I’ve missed something. On the iPhone I don’t have to bother with that; I just tap the home button and open the next app I want to work on. When I’m done, I can just switch back to the note I was working on previously.
“What aggravates me most about Apple notes: NO CATEGORIES! I have over 1500 memos for reference and fun, and try and wade through those if you want to find one specific memo. (OK – I know both have a search function. BTW – my BB searches the full body of the memo).”
There are no categories, that’s true. But finding one specific memo is a cinch on the iPhone using in-app search or Spotlight.
“Navigation is an issue, but manageable.”
Not for me; I hate it. Not just in the calendar, but for every other menu item and button press I have to remember, and the interminable scrolling of the track ball.
“BB had cut and paste long before iPhone users were screaming for it.”
But the iPhone has it now, and it’s faster, easier to use and more universally implemented than on the Blackberry.
“And for Tasks, having to resort to third party software only speaks to the short sightedness of Apple in not anticipating the needs of their users. Many of the shortcomings of the BB can also be addressed by 3rd party apps, so that argument is weak.”
I guess RIM was a bit short-sighted as well, then.
“And my contacts allows me to see the contacts address in Maps.”
What I was talking about was a quickly jotted note in the Notes app; the iPhone automatically recognizes street addresses and turns them into hyperlinks which, when tapped, launch Google Maps. Have they implemented that on your Blackberry?
“Sometimes an OS is defended more out of faith and devotion rather than merit.”
Yes, I’ve noticed that, too.
“Multi-tasking is irrelevant, here, because, on the Blackberry, there’s no way to switch to another app without saving the memo first, is there?”
Yes- either press red end key or choose ‘switch application’ in menu. Go back to memo later and it will still be there.
“and it’s faster, easier to use and more universally implemented than on the Blackberry.”
I disagree- iPhone copy paste is far too fiddly for me. Much prefer BB here.
1) “Multi-tasking is irrelevant, here, because, on the Blackberry, there’s no way to switch to another app without saving the memo first, is there?”
There is a new Application Switcher. I have it assigned to my right convenience button. It brings up a scroll list of all the open applications.
2) “There are no categories, that’s true. But finding one specific memo is a cinch on the iPhone using in-app search or Spotlight.”
True, but you can get stuck with one paradigm, as I am, I guess. For example, I have a category for astronomy. When I am out in the field it is easier to scroll through a series of related notes in one category about what to look for then it is to search every time. Especially when you are balancing a telescope, a BB, etc.,
Got to admit, there are better astro apps on the iPhone.
3) ““Navigation is an issue, but manageable.”
Not for me; I hate it. Not just in the calendar, but for every other menu item and button press I have to remember, and the interminable scrolling of the track ball.”
To each his own. I can live with it for now. I do come from the Treo world and will admit that touch screen navigation is easier.
4) ““BB had cut and paste long before iPhone users were screaming for it.”
But the iPhone has it now, and it’s faster, easier to use and more universally implemented than on the Blackberry.”
Faster yes. Universal? I have some apps that I wish would take advantage of it, but don’t.
5) ““And for Tasks, having to resort to third party software only speaks to the short sightedness of Apple in not anticipating the needs of their users. Many of the shortcomings of the BB can also be addressed by 3rd party apps, so that argument is weak.”
I guess RIM was a bit short-sighted as well, then.”
Amen (in keeping with the tone of the post). ;o)
6) ““And my contacts allows me to see the contacts address in Maps.”
What I was talking about was a quickly jotted note in the Notes app; the iPhone automatically recognizes street addresses and turns them into hyperlinks which, when tapped, launch Google Maps. Have they implemented that on your Blackberry?”
No, didn’t know it was available on the iPhone. Cool!
As I’ve posted elsewhere, I have a foot in both camps. I have a BB for business and an iTouch for fun. I use the BB more.
Peace and love!
“I disagree- iPhone copy paste is far too fiddly for me. Much prefer BB here.”
I’m gobsmacked.
Everyone is different, and we all like different ways of doing things.
Clearly.
@ lazyboy lol 3 devices maybe but work I very strict security procedures. Everytime I use my BB I have to enter a 10 digit password comprising of a mix of letters, numbers and different cases. I have a Hero and iPod Touch because I play loads of games and regularly flatten my Touch’s battery. I wouldn’t want my personal phone flat. The other reason why I have the Hero is price. It’s a lot cheaper than an iPhone and it’s a great phone. If I could use one device for everything it probably would be the iPhone 3gs.
@ everyone else – as I use 3 OS daily and have used all OS’s my view is that “lazyboy” is 100% right about everything and everyone else is talking bxllxxks!
Shaun, I find BB cut and paste to be awful too…the o/s isn’t that important to me, crikey I’ve used them all over the past 2 years (except Android) but the apps are king for me and at the moment iPhone apps, in my view, are the best. Android however looks like it may really challenge on that front and with the better choice of hardware about to come I find myself thinking it will be the one for me 6 months down the line. I found the quality of BB apps to be the poorest behind Symbian and way behind Win Mob, Palm and iPhone. No RSS app outside the ad strewn Viingo? C’mon…
@Murrayalex, surely nothing can be worst than the S60 PIM app! Once upon a time Nokia took the fantastic Psion Agenda app and reduced its functionality to fit with the button driven form factor and stripped the PIM of all its functionality!
As I said before, two box solution for me as PIM and business centric capabilities (e.g. long battery life) will never be a priority for the mass market touch screen devices.
Jah, yes, I guess I am just lucky in that I don’t need fantastic PIM apps on a mobile phone, very basic does me. There’s a lot to be said for the phone and pda style combo, the likes of Palm, for example, and their PDA’s got it spot on. Must admit, I was not a big fan of the S60 PIM on my E71
I think another way to sum things up:
No platform is yet perfect–all could use continuous improvement!
Great discussion!
So long as the debate endures, we’ll see better software.
As for the OS/religion debate, I do not think the fight will be between Apple and RIM but rather between Apple/RIM closed approached versus Android.